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Not adding a burning the Star of David emote, apologies, but that’s the line I draw, being Jewish. I know that’s not the intent stated, but it still is as such. I’m not trying to say that Israel’s use of it is in any way legitimate, nor that I disagree that Israel is a genocidal apartheid state that deserves 1000 October 7ths for all the terror they wrought, but it just makes me viscerally uncomfortable to have an emote depicting that.
I’ll add as many anti-Israel emotes as y’all and I can come up with except the one where we’re toeing the line into, and I hate to use this phrase as a cracker but I don’t know how else to describe it, generational trauma. I know the holocaust has been cynically weaponized by this freak fascist ethnostate to do unspeakable horror, but it’s innately uncomfortable even as part of the anti-Zionist diaspora to make something like this. It fucking sucks, and I’m sorry, but that’s why I scoured for any other representation of Israel that doesn’t invoke Judaism as a whole.
This might be my suburbanite americracker brain showing, but it’s really my only major line-in-the-sand. Sorry.
honestly I’m still surprised we even added considering that there is still a burning star of david on it.
I just want to say that I also completely understand and agree with you. It may be too much and unnecessary to have a burning Star of David.
According to Gershom Scholem, the Star of David (magen David) has since only the 19th century been used as a representation of Jewish people as a whole but was used for specific and special religious rituals by Jewish people for far longer. It was probably only because of its use to generally symbolize Jewish people starting in the 19th century that it was picked up by the Zionist movement and now as we know it is sadly intertwined with it. I do find the co-option of the Star of David by Zionism to be reprehensible and, of course, Zionists will also use it in a hateful way which is disgusting, so I don’t think Foucaults is wrong in pointing out that it has regrettably added a new chapter in its history, namely in being a hate symbol. But I don’t think this discounts its history of meaning as being a deeply religious, ritualistic symbol for the Jewish people since at least the seventh century BCE according to Scholem. This is the tricky part of dealing with fascist/fundamentalist movements which co-opt religious or ethnic symbols and utilize them as a sign of their movement. We want to justifiably reject their movement but we also don’t want to identify the symbol, or the people of the symbol, with their movement in the first place because that is exactly what they want—so it takes some care to attack the true enemy. In this case, I think a burning Star of David can be considered an anti-Semitic symbol much in the same way as an emoji of a burning menorah, or a burning Tetragrammaton or any of the Holy Names or even just the Yod. These are all deeply religiously Jewish symbols and should be understood as such. As Leftists we should not always let the Right use or take what they want and I think this is one of those cases when we should still support our Jewish comrades in rupturing Zionism from Judaism and the magen David, specifically.
Full disclosure, but I’ve ended up in the middle of a conflict of my school where a bunch of Jewish teachers are flipping the fuck out about expressions of Palestinian solidarity and someone literally stole a free Palestine sign out of the only Muslim teacher on staff’s room. It’s very upsetting how much of the discourse around an ongoing genocide by Israel has been about the importance of making sure that Jewish people in the West are not made even a little bit uncomfortable.
I understand your feelings about this, and I’ve wanted to respect them in the past, but Israel is killing people en masse and flying that flag over the ruins of their homes. It should be burned, end of story.
If someone else who has access to the emotes tab agrees that I have too much of a conflict-of-interest here and wants to personally make it and add it, then I’ll argue my case and grit my teeth, even though I feel uncomfortable about it and think it invites in some issues that I’d rather not have to second-guess about. I’m not going to do it myself. Sorry.
you’ve twice now implied that you no longer care about the concerns of your jewish comrades, which i think is pretty bad in and of itself, but i really feel the need to point out that no amount of burning stars of david is going to improve the situation in palestine even a single iota. none of those people will ever see your fervent anti-israel posting. pushing so hard for an emote to be added to a niche communist website is a complete waste of energy that could be better spent doing anything else.
i’m not trying to be harsh but i genuinely think you need to reconsider the value of the demand you’re making
Perhaps you missed the part where, in real life, I’m having to fight tooth and nail to allow students and teachers the right to express solidarity with Palestine, precisely because of Zionists I work with. Zionists who are explicitly using their identity as Jews to censor others’ speech. This is not an abstract issue, it’s a very real one where I’m having to stick my fucking neck out in a way that has real life consequences. Stick your condescension in a sack and take it elsewhere
If I’ll say it IRL, I’ll say it on the niche communist website, and you coming at me with the smarmy “it’s a waste of energy” bullshit is not going to change that. Why are you wasting your time arguing with me on a niche communist website?
someone literally stole a free Palestine sign out of the only Muslim teacher on staff’s room
I’m sorry to hear that, being a Muslim in the west is a struggle that is often invisible to people, because there was never a civil rights movement in the west based around Islam. There are no Oscar-winning movies about Muslims winning a Supreme Court case, or getting a constitutional amendment passed.
But on the “burning star of David” issue, I would ask you to reconsider. Many Jews around the world are not zionists, and in fact many oppose zionism and especially the genocide Israel is currently carrying out in Gaza. Burning the star of David comes across, at first glance, the same as burning a cross on the lawn of a black person. It will draw in the wrong crowd, no matter the intention.
Also, I would never support having an emote displaying the prophet Muhammad. Why? Because there are 2 billion Muslims in the world and most of them are wonderful people. Are there a handful of reactionary, theocratic governments led by Muslim clerics, who have ruthlessly crushed socialist movements? Yes. Erdoğan is an asshole, and his attempt to destroy secularism and socialism in Turkey is despicable. But just because Erdoğan is using Islam for evil, as part of his right-wing ideology, that does not mean Islam itself is evil. It does not mean we should post cartoons of Muhammad everywhere, to spite Erdoğan. Being “precious” about posting pictures of Muhammad is, in truth, a sign of respect to Muslim comrades, not a tacit approval of right-wing Islamic theocracies. It’s a complex issue, but I trust WhyEssEff’s judgement.
there was never a civil rights movement in the west based around Islam.
Malcolm X: am i a joke to you???
Dude, just settle for a flag modified to not have the star, it’s not that difficult.
ended up designing my own based on the stern gang’s symbol
other hexbear jews lmk if I’m having a brainfart (if so I’ll backtrack to blank white with blue bars) but I don’t think this specific symbol is very linked to anything but zionism
So there are some specific offices as well we can use. The presidential flag though that is a Menorah so that might be a bit iffy. The flag of Tel Aviv , or Likud’s flag
Wouldn’t the Jewish people be better off without a genocidal ethnostate claiming to speak for them?
We would, yes. I’m an anti-Zionist, of course. In no way do I support Israel. There’s just a line for me in regards to adding a pictographic representation of burning the Star of David that I’m viscerally uncomfortable crossing. If another person who can access the emotes tab decides to go over my head because this is that much of a conflict-of-interest, then I’ll plead my case and then grit my teeth about it, I guess. As the self-appointed emote czar, though, I’m not personally going to add it.
I’ve added other anti-Zionist emotes here: off the top of my head.
What if the Star of David on the flag was replaced with something like a blue letter I in the center, something which makes it clear it’s Zionist Israel being represented instead of Judaism as a whole?
Rethink having a burning star of David as a site emoji. You’re not missing anything, you can express all anti Israel and antizionist sentiment you want, and detail it with if you’d like. You’re not missing anything and you understand just fine why this site doesn’t need an emoji like that.
You’re not missing anything and you understand just fine why this site doesn’t need an emoji like that.
Thanks for just assuming I’m posting in bad faith. Love to be patronized
I’m not saying you’re an antisemite, I’m saying the reason is pretty obvious, no? I’m ESL, I have a hard time conveying tone in English text.
Palestinians are the only kind of people who cannot even express that they are oppressed without having to worry about the feelings of their fucking oppressors.
The left and other allies of the oppressed would look ridiculous if this kind of tone policing was done against indigenous people anywhere else.
I don’t want us to bring in a burning star of david symbol, but it is absurd.
every time I want to post a burning Israeli flag I donate to Palestine Children’s Relief Fund instead
We have had Jewish comrades here and in other posts in the past say it makes them uncomfortable. That should be the last word, full stop. That is in no way equivalent to random Zionists saying “Free Palestine” makes them feel unsafe. I am not Jewish but if I was that comparison would piss me off. If the big TC69 struggle sessions taught us anything, it’s that we always default to our comrades here when they say something isn’t cool and we always show grace.
