cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/1338851
Archived version: https://archive.ph/yDjTx
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230811193345/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-fire-all-regional-military-recruitment-chiefs-zelenskiy-2023-08-11/
“Boot camp” meaning some dumbass NATO instructor showing you how to kick open doors and do counter-insurgency for 2 weeks before being sent off to run into a minefield
True, they were barely in Ukraine for a week before their own lack of opsec invited a rain of cruise missiles down on them
I mean there are literally videos of Ukrainian men being kidnapped so they can be conscripted into the military. The user you are replying to is clearly making a dark joke about that.
Two countries at war. One is the aggressor and other is the victim of aggression. But of course hexbear.net comrades would want the victim country to act all up to standard, and ignore how the aggressor country is doing its own military recruitment.
I think they know quite well how it works, and hexbear. Hence the comment.
This is just a silly “no u”. We’re federated, not defederated, so one is relevant and not the other at the moment.
Lemmy dot world is always there if you want an instance that defederates from leftists and federates with your “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds” types.
Hexbear has been using Lemmy for years, technical issues around our active user count and having to rely on volunteer labour means we were only able to federate recently.
Then go make your own private instance where you can federate with whoever you want and keep the mean old tankies out
We were invited here by the Lemmy.ml mods on behalf of their community. If the majority of users on Lemmy.ml wanted us gone then the Mods wouldn’t have federated with us in the first place. Maybe you misread the community you joined 2 months ago? The mods of Lemmy.ml sure as heck didn’t misread hexbear before federating with us.
Hexbear’s horde of mouthbreathers
Main Character Syndrome is symptomatic of lib-brain. SAD!
Never heard of hexbear but why does an instance that claims to be leftist use Trump memes and back Russia?
Trump is funny. Obviously. Terrible but hilarious. We don’t back Russia we just understand NATO to generally be far more destructive and deadly. That’s just old Tom Bombadilaros thoughts.
Because Russia is the same as America in pretty much every way. So it is fascist infighting. Trump is also the same as pretty much the same as every other president. Liberals just hate him for idiosyncratic reasons. So it is funny
federation isn’t brigading. a post shows up in our feeds, we click on it and comment because helping people dodge the draft is cool and good. We’re one of the largest instances, and the consensus we have on issues like “conscription is bad” should not be taken as coordination on the part of hexbear users. If we did deliberately coordinate we’d all link you clowns to the thread where we did it because it would be funny.
Propaganda is when you say the same thing Reuters, CNN, WSJ, etc are all saying about draft corruption in Ukraine lol
Idk if “commenting on a post from another instance that showed up in my feed because the instance I use is federated with that instance” is brigading.
If you’re so eager to defend a military conscription/draft, why don’t you go and fight on the frontline yourself? This whole article is about Zelenskyy cracking down on Ukrainian citizens avoiding the conscription because they don’t want to be sent into the meat grinder that is the heavily fortified front lines.
It’s always those that face the least consequences from war that are the most eager for it to continue.
Oh man, that brings me back to the days when r/cth used to brigade other subs. Those were the times.
Never thought I’d live long enough to see it again…
The best part was that it was always just the fact we were all terminally online and saw the same frontpage threads as everyone else. It was (almost) never an actual brigade, just the result of having a bunch of very active posters with better politics than the average redditor. That’s all it took to make the worst people on reddit over being unable to consistently silence people with better opinions than their own.
I just looked, and I think it’d be more accurate to call it a Neo-Bolshevik cesspit.
Hexbear users rushing to bombard this comment with image reactions to say they’re not brigading
I play “count the fallacies” with the comments. So far I’ve seen: ad homonim; what-about-ism; strawman ; appeal to popularity ; appeal to authority ; hasty generalization / ecological fallacy
I get bored well before I stop counting
GOD i hate these STUPID hexbears SO much it makes my SKIN crawl… Sure hope they’re not reading this thread and brigading you… Eek!
“Everyone knows that the left and the right are the same and that the REASONABLE MODERATE CENTER is best! Right? Right? It’s not as though Biden is a war criminal rapist segregationist and virtually the twin brother of Trump, right? America might have some problems (ongoing slavery, genocide, imperialism, civilizational suicide via climate change) but it’s still overall a force for good, right???”
I get that you guys love seeing trump do stupid shit and abuse his power as president, because it vindicates your view of the US government, but still, the asshole that tells his fans to harass people and shits on rule of law is objectively worse than the ones who didn’t, please. I thought one of hexbear’s redeeming qualities was at least anti-homophobia, anti-misogyny, etc. This whole “trump is no worse than anyone else” is just crypto-trumpism and one example of why you guys are accused of being the lefty version of MAGAts.
Ironically they support Russia, the bastion of leftism
Hexbear User here: where did you see people claim Putin’s Russia being a bastion of leftism?
I’ve been interacting with them recently to see what they are all about and lmao I don’t think I’ve ever had a dumber discussion in my life. Truly they are uniquely stupid.
“Opposing military conscription is stupid” and other hot takes from westerners that have never had to fight a war at home.
How is it stupid to oppose Zelenskyy’s suicidal conscription polices? It makes Russia’s mobilisation/conscription look pacifist by comparison.
If you pop into that users history, you’ll see that the interacting they’re talking about is whining at me for a couple of days because I called them a racist.
My cats have learned the wirr motor sound of the feeder means food. So they’ll run from whereever in the house at an motor sound. Suddenly like “it’s food time right? Right? But the noise means food…” Regardless of any further context.
Same same but different with hexbear.
That’s not a good sign for Ukraine in what is an attrition war. Even their own military is making plans to smuggle their men out if the country because they don’t want to send them to the death trap that is the heavily reinforced WW1 like frontlines. And Zelensky’s response is just to fire and try replace the people doing that, instead of looking as to why that is happening. If the counter offensive tactics are so dire that your own military is doing corruption to avoid sending men to the front, maybe that needs reassessment.
Zelenskiy said a state investigation into centres across Ukraine had exposed abuses by officials ranging from illegal enrichment to transporting draft-eligible men across the border despite a wartime ban on them leaving the country.
I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong, and I’m certainly no expert. However, I do know that Ukraine has long struggled with corruption, and has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades. And they will always have (there are always, in any conflict) a certain level of partisanship in their own ranks.
I’ve been mildly concerned about what could happen after the invasion; assuming Ukraine is successful, Zelenskyy’s popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship. However, so far I’ve seen little to indicate that he’s anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader – I like the guy, and I’m inclined to trust his judgement. He’s done unexpectedly well so far, and Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
Maybe Ukraine leadership is making a mistake, but maybe they know something us armchair Generals don’t.
Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
I agree with this sentence but I think we have very different ideas of what the “ethical ideals of the EU” are.
if you ukraine were to win the war (and they won’t) whatever remains of their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts. a lot of the ‘aid’ they’ve received—from the ‘highly ethical’ EU among others—consists of loans that are to be paid back in full and with interest.
and we already know what the cost of these foreign ‘‘aid’’ packages are; privatization (already well under way—ukraine even has their own website); austerity; lower wages; poorer working condition; a crackdown on labor rights and organizing (like banning left-wing parties in your country, which zelensky has already done), etc.
their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts.
But Zelenskyy told me that Ukraine was going to reach a 1 trillion GDP in 10 years by deregulating, selling off public assets, and reforming social programmes. Are you really suggesting he would lie like that?
Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
Doesn’t seem very ethical to me to ban your opposition parties for being left wing.
has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades
Zelensky was literally in the Pandora Papers lmao
You don’t see his pandering to the EU as stumbling backwards into this whole situation in the first place?
I understand that it comes across as provocative, but from what I understand about his (attempted) maneuvering over the past couple years, he’s kind of a spineless and weak leader who trusted the wrong side and got his country embroiled in a massive conflict.
NATO and the US are not trustworthy allies, and they let him talk up "Ukraine joining NATO ", a very dangerous thing to do, but I don’t believe they had any intention of letting them in at any point. Zelensky should have understood this.
Ukraine is fucked. As others have pointed out, western vultures are already carving it up via mass privatization (though they may be disappointed with what’s left when the war is over). The “counteroffensive” went nowhere and whether Russia marches all the way to Odessa is really just a question of if they want to at this point. The war was lost before it started and Ukraine will be lucky if it doesn’t get annexed to pieces by Poland et al in the coming months. Best case it keeps some manner of territorial integrity and limps along as a failed state. Not sure Zelensky deserves all the blame for this disaster, as the wheels were in motion at least as early as 2014, but they definitely bet on the wrong horse here.
I’ve seen little to indicate that he’s anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader
Zelenski is a trained actor.
Did you see any signs Jack Gleeson wasn’t a petty psychotic little shit in Game of thrones? He’s actually a pretty cool guy in real life.
Are you comparing a fictional character in a fictional story to a person performing IRL? You’re judging his performance in this crisis by hia previous career? Which careers pass your “ok to be voted into presidency” test?
A question, do you truly think the Netherlands or Denmark would honestly let Ukraine join the EU? When they are already moaning about Romania and Bulgaria? Its a pipedream to sell Ukrainians on copium.
I don’t know. The EU has been having a bit of a crisis, with candidates from several member states floating the idea of their own Brexits, financial struggles, and bad faith actors. I would hope that if Ukraine met the conditions for membership, then yes. It had been doing pretty well, financially and rule-of-law -wise; maybe not perfect, but steadily improving.
I was surprised by Trump, by Brexit, by the political successes of far-right politicians (Rachele Mussolonis) across Europe. I have no idea which way any of these countries will break.
Zelenskyy’s popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship
Yes and no. His poll numbers surged from about 30% to 88% after the invasion but Ukrainians want a EU path and Dictator Zelenzkyy would be in the way of that. He could certainly win another term in a landslide and do a de Gaulle but I kinda doubt he’s even interested in that, he certainly wasn’t terribly ecstatic about it before the war and with how things are looking martial law is going to continue past the election date, that is, there’s going to be no elections. Meaning that at the end of it all there’s going to be a Zelenskyy who’s first going to take a vacation, and then do another season of servant of the people. Opening scene: Goloborodko wins the elections against the incumbent, a comedian who saved the nation from calamity due to sheer stupid luck (something about an asteroid if I remember my season 1 right). Finally, someone with proper qualifications in office again, a history teacher!
Drafts should be considered a war crime against your own people. If you can’t defend your country without a draft, it doesn’t deserve to be defended because there are obviously not enough people willing to fight for it. Turning your citizens into slaves and sending them into the meat grinder makes you a monster.
Making education so expensive that the only way for some to pursue education is to die for their country is a crime. If majority of your citizen view being part of army is only for poor people, your country does not deserve to be protected because obviously not enough people willing to fight for it. Turning your citizens into slaves and sending them into the meat grinder makes you a monster.
You’re right, but the economy forcing people into wage slavery is a separate issue that also needs to be addressed.
I’m not sure there are no situations in which draft’s are permissible. If we were in a socialist society and a fascist government invades and I were Commissar of War you bet your ass the ex-bourgeois are getting drafted.
I see your point, but that’s a topic that should be up for discussion among your hypothetical Party/legislature. I don’t think it has a clear answer.
100% agree. Me presenting it as a choice by a single Commissar for War is more tongue-in-cheek. The answer whether or we should do it is contextual but my point is that there are clear cases which I can imagine in which drafting would be clearly justified, even if of only certain groups.
But responding to a question of whether or not we should do something by saying it would be decided democratically is evading the actual question of what you would put forward or support as appropriate policy in such a scenario. If everyone one responded that way then nothing would be decided.
In this hypothetical wouldn’t the boogies and Kulacks would be in Gulags already? A bunch would be willing to sign on if it meant they might get an early release after the war. No draft necessary.
draft is precisly because of that necessary , its put a general price on “Imperial adventure” while proffessional army will recruit itself from the lower classes and can be spend easly (they choose soo ) , its a bad as its forces the underprivledge to die for an empire whos fruits the privledge eat , while avoiding the blood…
The elites will just dodge the draft anyway. At least without a draft, a sufficiently unpopular war is more likely to be shut down by people refusing to enlist. Also, you can’t advocate for slavery by arguing that it solves some other problem.
Volunteer service means wars are waged outside of public consciousness now. The Afghanistan war went on for 20 years and was essentially invisible to most people in the US. The Fed openly trying to increase unemployment is at least partially motivated by the military recruitment issues going on right now. Volunteer wars are fueled by the lives of desperate poor people.
I don’t have a strong opinion on the matter (nor do I support the draft in the sense of furthering imperial interests) but one effect of a draft is that it creates a class of anti-war, trained veterans both on the battlefield and at home. Which is pretty dangerous to institutional power structures if that demographic can’t be kept satiated.
Wouldn’t go as far to say the draft should be re-instituted in the US or that it’s a good thing. just an interesting side effect of it sometimes
Absolute state of the world that the view that people should defend their country is facism. I’m sure the allies didn’t see themselves as fascist in WW2
A bit fascist to assume that the only way to contribute to society is military service.
No you don’t understand this actually means they’re winning even harder putler St Petersburg slava unazi
