It’s trendy these days to be anti colonialism, but as soon as you mention ireland all the support fizzles out. Fucks up with that? Most young people hate tories, hate british empire, etc etc, but then you say IRA and everyone gets scared. It’s not even like my generation has an emotional attachment to it either - it’s before our time
Belfastian here, I got downvoted on the subreddit for explaining this way back but I’m gonna try again. The reason alot of Irish people sneer at IRA Larping from Leftists of other countries is because no matter what your perspective the consensus is that having the IRA return would be bad. Even the most die hard Republican will admit that the IRA achieved what it set out to do: The Political means to achieve a United Ireland. The GFA has alot of issues, and the British like to forget it often (especially with Brexit) but if there was an actual large majority of people in NI right now who were willing to Vote Yes on a United Ireland right now it would happen. The main road to progress towards reunification right now is that the Troubles remain in living memory, as time passes and the ceasefire babies (me included) grow up the percentage willing to consider a UI has risen noticeably. Eventually, when the Troubles actually does become history, perspectives may change (Just as it did with the original IRA, who are now viewed fairly unanimously throughout Ireland as heroes, even though they did some pretty bad shit too). But for now vocally supporting any of the paramilitaries actions during the Troubles is simply encouraging the Them 'uns attitude that is the main barrier to not only reunification but also functioning politics in Northern Ireland.
In short, you say it’s before our time, but I can still see the scars of the Troubles in my Parents and their generation. You can see it in our politicians, I grew up hearing about it constantly and witnessing the aftermath, about legacy trials and Paramilitary killings. If you live in Northern Ireland for any amount of time you’ll see just how much of everything is tangled up in the Troubles still. And its painful to admit it, but it won’t stop until I’m old and the previous generation is all gone, even then I imagine its legacy will still find ways to remain.
And I know this bit won’t be popular among the very American Centric Chapos, but quite frankly I’m okay with having it be forgotten. It’s affected so much of my life without having even being alive during it that I honestly just want the whole sad mess left to the history books. I can only imagine that those who were alive during it feel it even more strongly. People can glorify the IRA all they want but I’m done wasting my life on the ghosts of the past.
TLDR: It’s too soon
P.S. Also wanted to add on that the reason the both sides-ism that permeates NI is bullshit isn’t cause the IRA were saints but because One side was a group of civillian paramilitaries and one side was a state government that actively encouraged and extended the Troubles and then continues to coverup and protect their war crimes and criminals.
P.P.S. Because this has got me all riled up now I’m gonna also add in this. If you want an example of how pervasive the hold the Troubles still has on Northern Ireland then take Trans Rights as an example. Northern Ireland didn’t even hold a consultancy on the GRA reform like every other UK country did, and quite frankly trans rights are just barely coming onto the radar of our politicians. The Gender Identity Clinic in Northern Ireland (As in the only one) stopped accepting patients for 2 years and may still not be as far as I know. Why is this? FIrst of all, because the Troubles and the ensuing peace process (which is still ongoing, we didn’t have an assembly for almost 2 years again because we still haven’t enacted the Irish Language Act, Something that was promised in the GFA over 20 years ago) stagnated the entire political landscape of NI for some 50 years, so we only got Gay Marriage this year because Westminister forced us to, You know shits bad when the English have to vote for Gay Marriage for you. Secondly is the DUP, who are bigots who still control the majority vote. Why? Because they prey upon the legacy of the Troubles to command the Unionist vote. Their core voter base is those Unionists who lived through the Troubles that will vote for a Unionist party no matter what there politics. Theres actually even more I could go into on this, but see how long this has gotten already? About something as completely unrelated to The Troubles as Trans Rights?
Bro i’m also a dumbass from texas but I really appreciate your thoughtful (and frankly, personal) answer. I had never considered ireland was still tangled in the fallout of the Troubles, and i can’t help thinking I’ve missed the nuances of the situation from my outsider perspective.
Do you have any good, comprehensive resources on the issue? I would love to read and learn more.
Two very good but very harrowing books would be Children of The Troubles by Joe Duffy and Freya Clements and Lost Lives by by Chris Thornton, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney , David McKittrick. Children of The Troubles tells the stories of some of the 180 odd children killed during the troubles through interviews, and Lost Lives provides a incredibly comprehensive account of the deaths throughout the Troubles that paints the broad picture of the whole conflict. One of the main things growing up and still to this day was hearing every few weeks on the news about another “Legacy” case about some poor family looking for closure on a family member who turned up in a bog or just straight up disappeared 30-40 years ago and never recovered from it.
Most people outside of Ireland, even those who know Irish people, often don’t realise it because of how, growing up in Northern Ireland, much of it is unspoken, taken-for-granted, knowledge that you don’t really need to talk about because everyone already knows it. Which results in alot of outsiders simply never hearing about it. (This applies less to Americans and more to people of the UK, who you would think should know a bit about the country right across from them)
I’m just a dumbass from Texas, but that is actually a super interesting perspective. Thank you for sharing
I absolutely disagree that the current state of Northern Ireland is what the rank and file of the IRA killed and died to achieve. Your PPS shows exactly why the armed conflict concluded in abject failure, distilled in the form of the Good Friday Agreement. The GFA, whose resulting Northern Ireland Assembly is permanently teetering on the brink of collapse, with the prospect of a return to direct rule from London ever present?
Did all those people have to die and waste their lives in prison for a toothless regional assembly that is even more of a concession to British rule than the Sunningdale Agreement from a full 25 years earlier? What a waste. Don’t forget that the Assembly is at its foundation a sectarian establishment - members upon joining the assembly must designate themselves as unionist or nationalist. United Ireland, indeed!
Speaking of which, I have really strong doubts that a united Ireland would be voted for now, or any time soon. Whatever they’re worth, polls indicate that is a long way off.
The British, experienced colonisers that they are were smart enough to encourage a strong, educated Catholic middle class during the Troubles, by pumping billions of pounds into NI and building a relatively strong economy compared to the Republic of Ireland. The cultivation of this Catholic bourgeois, deeply entwined with the legal and security apparatus of the British state has resulted in a population, who unlike their forbears, do not have much interest at all in a united Ireland and are quite happy with their lot, thank you very much. Their allegiance is to the status quo. And with the absence of any class-conscious politics whatsoever, the working class are left adrift as always.
So, apart from 30 years of armed conflict resulting in a failed political agreement that is as far from a United Ireland as ever…another reason to not idolise the IRA is that they were absolutely and thoroughly infiltrated by British intelligence. One must conclude that their military campaign was a complete failure that achieved little beyond enriching their political leadership .
As has been said before elsewhere, polls like that are misleading. “Would you support Irish Unification if a referendum was held tommorow” is not indicative of how the actual scenario would work. As for the political stagnation, it had to happen eventually, there was always going to be a fallout period after the conflict ended. I don’t think you can really decry it as dysfunctional until we see what the generation of politicians after the current ones are like, who were not directly involved and affected by The Troubles.
Secondly, I have no idea what planet your on if you’d call NI’s economy “strong” especially compared to the Republics. The UK’s pumped billions of pounds into this country to keep it from basically collapsing in on itself after, unsurprisingly, 30 years of civil war kinda stunted economical growth.
The GFA’s a ramshackle thing but armed conflict could only bring the reunification cause so far and the IRA knew that. Who knows what might’ve been, but all we know for sure is the actions of the IRA caused the GFA, and the GFA allows for a Unified Ireland. Polls should always be taken with a pinch of salt but most of them have shown a consistent rise in the willingness to consider a United Ireland among the Ceasefire Generations as time goes on, and I’m confident that given time we’ll reach a state were a large majority will be willing to consider reunification not on the basis of national identities, but on the actual benefits of reunification. I’m sure you’ve noticed just as I have the increase of centralists and unionists who, thanks to Brexit, have said they would consider it based on the actual benefits. Once the Tories dissassemble the NHS once and for all it will drive even more people towards it.
Because if theres one thing thats certain, its that the English will keep fucking over Northern Ireland until eventually enough people will be pushed towards reunification.
At the height of the troubles and well into the 1990’s (pre celtic tiger), the North was a significantly stronger economy than the Republic. They did not suffer the same levels of mass emmigration during the 1980’s.
Artificially so, for sure. That’s the point. That’s when a complacent, Catholic middle-class was nurtured by the British. A generation who thought less of a united ireland and more about a solid job working for the state. Their children’s generation thinks even less so of a united ireland.
What exactly is the current political movement towards a united ireland? What form does their activism take?
Everyone’s been poisoned by the idea of non-violence and the important details of the IRA’s struggle, like that they were working hard to minimize casualties while MI6 used Nazi proxies to push a program of maximum collateral damage and maximum sectarian bloodshed, have been obscured by thirty years of “both sides”
https://www.spin.com/featured/inside-the-ira-spins-1994-feature/ this is a really good, unbiased article that goes into the late IRA’s response to calls for peace as well as how their structure worked as a whole. This is specifically about the war in NI though, and not the bombings in England, though it talks about why they went to such a strict recruiting process.
I’ve seen tons of young leftists make IRA posts on tiktok so I’m not that sure what you’re talking about
Yeah but that’s cos the algorithm found you. They’re a small portion. Of people I know IRL, people know fuck all about it except IRA scary.
I’m a millennial and I like the IRA.
People agree with me most of the time, but I sometimes wonder if that’s simply because they want me to stop ranting.
Yeah I mean it’s hard not to agree with you - it’s one of those issues where the Brits are so clearly in the wrong if you just mention how we’ve been over there pillaging and raping for over a hundred years.
Still though, so far the best I’ve managed is for them to say ‘both sides’ which makes me want to tear my cock and balls off.
