LesbianLiberty [she/her]
Hm, yeah, I can definitely see your perspective. I’ve only interacted with members of, for example, Cuba and China’s communist parties; so that paints the picture for me in my mind of what a communist party looks like.
I think to answer your question though, I guess I focus on two things;
A) A clear path of continuation, explicitly bound institutions which allow the next generation to pick up the mantle of running whatever revolution, and this requires institutions in my experience
B) An ability to survive through crisis, for example, if an anarchist project were able to bring huge progress in a short period of time, what use would it be if that project was then crushed by better organized and better funded imperialists or capitalists within a matter of years if not months?
I guess for me, I see that positive change only happens over long periods of time. The projects and solutions we have to environmental decay, economic democracy, etc all require these two things which socialist projects (not all, unfortunately, but enough to learn from) have shown an ability to do. If we don’t engage with what’s worked historically and build and improve that, we might as well be theorizing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Technically, I may choose not to maintain the API. It might not remain relevant or profitable for very long, but I can just ignore it.
Wow damn that’s crazy it’s almost like it requires constant effort and is a job unlike owning a property deed and failing to hire a contractor when my AC breaks down again.
Yeah but this hangup is also disconnected from the actual reality of living in socialist societies outside of their most turbulent times. The United States is already the most surveilled society and it doesn’t effect most people; only political actors working against the status quo and those recruited by intelligence agencies to shoot up a mall. As well, friends snitching on friends, it’s reminiscent of only a short era of Soviet history that’s often highly exaggerated.
However I can’t blame you for your hangups, except to say that after talking to comrades in multiple different existing socialist nations, I simply don’t have them anymore. If you ever get the chance to talk to communists in real communist parties, I think your worries will fade away. They’re largely like all the punks and progressives I know in my life if they were simply given the political education and support to make their society better. I can’t guarantee this is true in all cases, clearly, but socialist governance is far more humane and elevates far better members of society than the bourgeois governance we’re both used to. It really does set the stage for a better humanity.
No, I don’t think it’s effective in any way, I think other users are correct when they note that this is a clearly ineffectual method of protesting that clearly has the potential for blowback like this; however, this still doesn’t mean that those who respond in such a way aren’t the biggest rubes on the planet.
Doesn’t it seem reasonable that the idea of trying to create a classless society would be a task better suited for those who come after us? For example, the promise of socialism is that democracy is then increased to be available to the wider masses of people. Socialist societies have in the past, and even in the modern day, demonstrate that they’re able to make huge leaps in social progress that enable more people than ever before be able to participate in the democratic processes of a society. I guess I’m not convinced that the idea that “Leninsts would not break down their own state” is something which is provable, and thus not a useful heuristic for making decisions. So what if “Leninists” aren’t capable of the next step in the growth of humanity, it’s been shown that they’ll give up on their power much more peacefully than societies dominated by the bourgeois class ever will (even and especially communist officials who didn’t benefit from the transition to liberal governance). If we’re able to save the planetary ecosystem with cybernetic planning, end hunger, guarantee housing and work for those who’re able and a good life for those who aren’t as the “Leninists” demand; won’t we have left our children with far more fertile soil for an anarchist society than if we simply struggle directly for a classeless society today?
Are we allowed to have discussion on these points in this thread? Because one thing I never understood is the idea that the socialist projects have to wither away so fast, I never got how anyone thought we were at any time in modern history at a point where the coordination created by socialist States could be torn down safely while preserving the gains made.
With the richest countries in the world and many of their colonies, with all the nukes and military one could imagine, breathing down on your doorstep I don’t know how it’s rational to think that you should then begin tearing down the structures which were then only created out of historical necessity to fight against these very forces. Do Anarchists (capital A) generally believe that the period for communist parties to prove they can transition towards a classless society has passed, and that they’ve somehow proven they’re incapable? Or do they think that the chance hasn’t been available yet but that if it was then communists would then prove themselves incapable of transitioning towards communism?
If you were sitting in 1970, you could look at this curve and claim, very confidently, that economic growth requires concomitant increases in energy use. And you’d be wrong. Because the trend is your friend til the bend at the end.
There’s simply no deep reason that economic growth requires increasing use of any physical resource. Economic value is all about the configuration of stuff, not the amount of stuff. If you took a hammer and smashed your phone to pieces, the resulting pile of trash would still contain the same amount of silicon and cobalt and gallium arsenide and so on. But now those resources would not be a valuable thing. Rearranging resources from a less useful configuration into a more useful configuration is what creates value
Wow! It’s crazy how *checks notes* “rearranging resources from a less useful configuration into a more useful configuration” was only invented in 1978. I wonder what a meaningful definition for this could be, why US energy use could go down but it’s GDP continued to soar?
I wonder if this could instead indicate that the US process of de-industrialization forced the metrics for how GDP is created to change fundamentally, masking the failure for the US economy to grow meaningfully outside of key sectors.
Damn maybe the fact that this predates the internet by an incredibly wide margin indicates that this trend isn’t due to the internet reducing the energy cost of the economy but instead that the economy has been allowed to dwindle and deteriorate while those on top who decide how it’s measured have decided to inflate it’s supposed value. Hell knows that I’ve never known economic growth while I’m alive outside of the tech sector.