Comment by DengistDonnieDarko [none/use name]@hexbear.net on Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.

Also Democrats: Ve shall round up und eradicate ze undesirables from society!!! Ve shall put zem into ze camps and ve shall enslave them to benefit ze superior class!!!

https://fxtwitter.com/lastreetcare/status/1806869510483476829

If the Dems get a workable majority in both houses and the presidency you’ll at least have fighting chance that they’ll push back on some of this stuff.

Imagine still believing this

I did say a fighting chance. The thing is, that chance improves if politicians see their voters want it to change and will abandon them if it doesn’t. That realization takes time and effort though, and isn’t going to happen in a substantive way by November.

Persuade more voters to think like you, organize enough chances for your local representative (regardless of party) to see that change and things might start to change, otherwise you’re just screaming into the void.

The thing is, that chance improves if politicians see their voters want it to change and will abandon them if it doesn’t

Imagine still believing this

It’s the one saving grace of an electoral system. Politicians have to chase votes. If they don’t, they don’t get elected. Changing voters minds is the hard part, politicians follow along.

this is why the democrats non-stop browbeat and punch left instead of delivering on policy their constituents want

Where and when are enough people coming together to say they want something different? Bear in mind it’ll have to be enough people to alter the balance of the next election, making themselves heard regularly.

The whole punching left thing is because they perceive that lots of voters don’t want to go further left. If we want that to stop we need them to see that it’s actually harming their chances of being elected. As I said, that’s going to take a lot of people all saying it and making sure their representatives or hopefuls hear it, loud and clear.

If we want that to stop we need them to see that it’s actually harming their chances of being elected.

So you agree, we need to threaten to withhold our vote for Biden, and follow through on the threat if he doesn’t change course?

you need to practice silence, do not speak from ignorance. “Where and when are enough people coming together to say they want” through polls and protests it’s very clear what people want, and elementary to demonstrate a lack of democrats’ fulfillment. democrat voters want abortion legalized federally, they wanted it fucking decades ago, what have the democrats done besides let roe die during their control?

Where and when are enough people coming together to say they want something different?

Well we’ve tried expressing our disapproval of the genocide on Palestine but the entire country basically called the cops on us. Apparently we have yet to reach a critical mass of people who are against mass murder and ethnic cleaning because the Democrats have made it clear they want a strong Israel, much like how they want there to be a strong Republican party.

First of all, almost every single poll in history, across most of the planet, has had a majority favouring at least some policy that the bourgeois parties can not and will not accept.

Honest question… how do you possibly rationalise this circular logic to yourself that you absolutely have to vote for a particular party no matter what, whilst also saying that political parties have to chase votes and you can make them change their policies by ‘showing them’ you want something different (but not withdrawing you vote)? You do realise how totally contradictory and incompatible those two things are right?

It’s the one saving grace of an electoral system. Politicians have to chase votes. If they don’t, they don’t get elected. Changing voters minds is the hard part, politicians follow along.

Imagine still believing this

Lol no they don’t. Rhetoric chases people’s votes, the material outcomes are predetermined by the systems of capital ownership, because the solicitation of donations is still the largest determinate of election outcome (outside of incumbency). Regardless if you win or lose, you have to enact policies that benefit your donors, or potential future donors, and given that we are living in the largest historical wealth gap, the material interests of politicians is to rhetorically chase the populace, but actually enact policies that only benefit the wealthy.

As you have so aptly demonstrated, the absolutely piss-poor political education that people in the U.S. receive insures that we will continue to be taken on the ride again and again.

Also, we don’t need to use any thought to reply to you, when you demonstrate so little insight.

solicitation of donations is still the largest determinate of election outcome

Those ‘donations’ are then used to influence voters to vote for the candidate. Votes are the single largest determinate of the outcome of an election because that’s what’s counted. Voters opinions are swayed in a lot of different ways, but I doubt, for instance, a far-right thug, no matter how well funded, could earn your vote. If enough voters to affect the outcome of the election have firm enough convictions that a certain thing is wrong and will not vote for a candidate that supports it, then the candidates in that election will not support it. The difficult part is getting enough people to actually make their position known in a way that can’t be overlooked.

Again, rhetoric is cheap. But access to spread rhetoric from the media requires money, Money requires you to do things that people with money like, which is at odds with your rhetoric. Rinse and fucking repeat. This isn’t hard.

Correct, I will never vote for a far right ‘thug’ which is why I won’t vote for Joe Biden.

they literally don’t when all they have to say is “we are better than the other guys” and you morons lap it up and go “next election we will really pressure them for sure”

If there aren’t enough people making a noise about what’s happening, why would they change? Getting that critical mass is the hard part. Ultimately this system claims to be democratic, so outcomes only changes under sufficient electoral presure.

spoiler: it’s not democratic and never has been

Politicians have to chase votes

No they fucking don’t? You already admited that they will let the republicans do what ever they want and not fight back. Why the hell would they chase votes if you already “have” to vote for them “because there no other choice.” What are you going to do? Vote for the republicans? You have no leverage and they own you.

The time to be making them start chasing is at the beginning of their term, not at the end, and there need to be enough people doing it to make a difference to the outcome for it to matter. A few people trying to change the direction of the main political parties is like someone in a kayak trying to redirect an oil tanker. First you need to change the captain’s mind, or in this case the electorate’s mind. Then you have the numbers to make it infeasible for politicians to ignore you.

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Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.(hexbear.net)

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