New account but I’ve been using burner accounts and lurking since the sub got banned. I’ve been seeing all the standard liberal brainworms again for the first time since people who wandered into the sub.
I gotta imagine this will only last another week before everyone defederates us, but let’s enjoy it for now.
I think it accomplishes nothing except pushing people away, it’s not changing anyone’s minds.
Do you have scientific sources for that?
More importantly, is there any evidence that politeness and trying as best as possible to engage in good faith in every interaction leads to better outcomes? Is Posting Praxis?
Obviously not! We’re all just screaming into the void for our own entertainment. If you wanted to make the world better you wouldn’t waste your time on a federated reddit clone telling people they’re being too rude.
Not scientific but we also haven’t been in this weird new internet era long enough for there to be that much science.
I firmly believe GamerGate only happened because things like ShitRedditSays and bullying culture raised the emotional intensity of discourse, which of course caused wilder swings in the other direction.
Many people who jumped on board with GG originally weren’t people trying to harass women, they were people upset with all the condescension and derision they got from what were labelled “SJWs”.
(NOTE: I am extremely anti-GG so any sensitivity to this is because I want to avoid another far right incel neckbeard movement, but this time with more political violence).
I don’t have a horse in this race. All of the discourse in these communities (including lemmygrad and hexbear) don’t really concern me. I don’t feel made fun of or attacked by anything I see going one way or the other. But the tone of the posts I see from these instances really reminds me of the highly hostile groups of old like SRS and KIA.
Like I think a lot of it is being done ironically? I hope so anyway. But eventually irony turns into sincerity.
The adage “you catch more flies with honey than vinegar” has been around for good reason. So far, these communities that have reached the main pages in other federations haven’t exactly put forth a welcoming or informative attitude. Especially when so many people are trying to figure out how federations even work, it’s not easy to go and find the more educational and informative parts behind the bullying, dunking culture posts that do seem to make it to the top.
I honestly have zero clue what these federations are trying to be. It seems fun but there’s also an element that seems weirdly serious and intense about being mean. I’m just confused by what the actual tone is supposed to be.
I hope my posting these thoughts here instead of complaining on other federations signals that this is just a genuine observation for the purposes of promoting healthy and quality discourse and maybe to foster some thoughts about how to treat others who aren’t trying to cause fights (and, hey, if someone is being a troll, then I’m pro loosing a can of ass kicking). I’m not here to piss on anyone’s parade but merely to suggest that second and third order consequences from large groups like these adopting certain attitudes are real, and have happened before.
Many people who jumped on board with GG originally weren’t people trying to harass women, they were people upset with all the condescension and derision they got from what were labelled “SJWs”.
This is revisionist as fuck. Just like modern complaints about “woke” and “cancel culture”, most of people’s feeling about these things being real come from reactionaries telling them that it’s omnipresent and seeing a handful of exceptional cases. GG has a recorded history of being an impressively-orchestrated 4chan (etc) op, maybe the most successful that they ever had.
I’d say you’re being more revisionist than I am. You know it was well orchestrated but you’re totally missing what the methods and mechanisms to convince the “middle” were. It didn’t become a movement almost literally overnight because the extremists all went mask off.
Were you even there when it grew and happened? It sounds like you missed it entirely and only know about it from after-the-fact recordings that can’t possibly capture the actual contemporary phenomena as it gripped communities in front of us.
Also, the nature of the replies to my comment are more in line with how GGers responded than it isn’t. Please go back and reconsider how my comment was actually about how bad behaviour fosters more bad behaviour.
I firmly believe GamerGate only happened because things like ShitRedditSays and bullying culture raised the emotional intensity of discourse, which of course caused wilder swings in the other direction.
Holy fucking shit you’re blaming SRS for Gamergate are you out of your fucking mind? It was an intentional fascist op.
And how the fuck can you act like SRS was ineffective? Reddit was a reactionary shithole (more so than today) back then. Gamers said “HAHA I RAPED YOU”, redditors all said there were no women on the internet and quoted the rules that rule 34 comes from unironically. r/jailbait was defended by them as freespeech and Violentacrez was “thrown under a bus” by the admins, according to redditors at that time. Do you remember what being trans on reddit was like back then? Any idea? Because I do. EVERYWHERE on reddit was like r/conservative is today. All the liberals were exactly like that. Utterly hostile to trans people.
Judging by how much has changed the methods utilised by the left on reddit (by which I mean us) were VERY effective at changing all of these things. And it was achieved by being radical, not kowtowing to that shit. By creating different cultural spaces and taking an utterly hostile stance to them.
The problem with liberals with closed minds is that you have to make them uncomfortable first before they’ll open them. Only after they’ve had some really negative experiences do they eventually prefer to have a positive one and open up to actually engaging in good faith. Then they actually fucking learn something. Until you kick that door down all your sugar instead of vinegar is meaningless.
No, I’m not blaming SRS for GamerGate. Nor did I say SRS was ineffective either. You’ve misunderstood what I actually said and, consequently, this does not feel like you’re actually responding to me but to some other sentiment you’ve detected in the past and have falsely ascribed back to me.
My focus is on how bad behaviour leads to bad behaviour. In fact the last time I experienced multiple people purposefully misinterpreting what I said in order to get mad at me was… GamerGaters.
