he’d just be belittled by the Republicans.

Why does this matter?

Tyrion? Yeah. Tyrion is very whitewashed in the show with many of his flaws from the books removed to be more of an explicitly heroic character.

Joffrey? No. He’s somewhat flanderized in the show, though I think part of that is Jack Gleason just being that good at acting that he makes him more hateable than ever. But monsterous acts that dont happen in the books happen in the show. And the sympathetic background of him being a product of abuse isnt really gone into as much in the show.

GOOD post.

Depends on the subject really. The hardest bars to cross for me are also the ones I find are hardest for liberals (or baby leftists who havent totally dewormed) in my experience. That being China/Russia type geopolitics stuff that ISNT Palestine (that ones actually fairly easy for them to get in my experience, sometimes you get both sides are bad but you can only see so much suffering before you break on that one I think) because the brainworms on that one are VERY settled and sometimes the stuff you have to get through isnt super intuitive, as I’ve described before. Thats why you get so many self-described anarchists who repeat state department propaganda about those countries and Venezuela and The DPRK and such. Because the brainworms on these subjects trigger the well meaning part of their brain. “Oh China is bad because Hong Kong/The Uighers/its a police state” ect. There are similar things for other countries. Its also why they tend to support protest movements that turn out to be color revolutions, because the propaganda behind manufacturing consent for those movements is extremely effective to well meaning brains.

And then there’s lesser evilism on voting, which tbh I still think you can sorta make arguments within the realm of leftism about voting strategy I guess, but still like, that one is also hard to deworm like I said that was my final gate not even a year ago. I know people who are “there” on most subjects, but still think that Democrats are the lesser evil and you have to vote for them. And their reasons for believing that? Entirely well meaning.

You can also sometimes have trouble with other stuff, like you might not be able to convince a well meaning person that revolution is good because they may be hyperfocused on the people that will get hurt as collateral damage and not be able to look at the whole picture. Looking at institutions structuraly rather than collectivly can be tough too, with things like convincing people that cops are a blanket bad thing. Speaking of which, it can also be hard to deworm people on things that have ALWAYS been there and seem like an essential part of existance, when it comes to things like police and prison abolition.

Its always interesting what issue is people’s breaking point. For me it was Mike Brown and the Ferguson protests. That it was Covid for you is really interesting to me. Makes sense though.

Oops made a duplicate thread and then saw this.

Yeah, this is unhinged and upsetting. But I absolutely saw it coming because Abby’s voice actress got harassed too. People hate Abby to such an absurd extent.

Well, thats a good explanation, thanks.

Liberals aren’t going to be convinced in the marketplace of ideas.

So what happened with me lol.

My astroturf alarms didnt go off with this one, largely because of the production values being too jank lol. But youre right, it would be effective. And I think there’s something inorganic about it becoming so popular on that platform.

I think the fact that my life experience makes me more empathetic to on the ground liberals and why they are the way they are is actually a useful trait that I shouldnt kill, because it gives me an angle people in your position dont have. What troubles me are people here who are themselves ex-liberals and have completely forgotten that in their rhetoric about liberals. Also, I didnt really go into this in my OP, but its not like my experience is that all liberals slam the door. Just certain types of particularly dug in very online liberals on social media. Irl experiences are usually very different, as well as experiances with people online with whom you have personal relationships.

There are people on this forum from countries where “liberals” cozy up with fascist death squads. It isn’t a rhetorical game to them like it is to you.

A lot of online liberal spaces have accepted “ACAB” wholeheartedly so idk if that applies to my experience really. And the fact that like, my acutal lived situation makes that not particularly relevant to my life would seem to matter to how I approach the issue of how to interact with liberals in my life? And remember, I’m not talking about liberal politicians, I’m talking about regular people who arent in positions of power.

And my final point is. If regular liberal by default people are irredeemable, then we’ve already lost. There is no hope in that line of thinking. I fail to see how we can win if thats the case. That’s too big a percentage of the population. We don’t have to win over /r/NeoLiberal to win, but we do have to win over a lot of people who are liberals toughtlessly because thats just normal for them. We do have to win over a lot of people who were where I was once.