Just a clarification, I’m not at all wishing death and suffering on anyone here. I am predicting it for a lot of them that are in the US, if Trump wins, but it’s not at all what I want. Not wanting people to suffer is precisely why I’m talking with you all. It’s not because it’s fun. This creatively backwards reception so everyone can get busy dunking is precisely the kind of big-brain thinking that leaves you all unwelcome in most places even on Lemmy.

It seems there is to be no meeting of the minds. I think I’m okay with that.

Biden didn’t close Trump’s camps (and Obama started most of them!), he just renamed them.

This one’s a whole can of worms that would require some level of good faith and listening for me to explain fully. Short answer, Biden tried to change the US’s immigration policy several times and it didn’t work. It’s fundamentally a terrible system, and he did some amount to change that and didn’t hit the gas on its most terrible features like Trump did, but it’s still terrible today, and we can say that it’s okay to hold him responsible for that since at the end of the day, the buck stops with him. I have more I could say on it that you would interpret as liberal bullshit, but you’re not a million miles off base.

Biden let just about all of Trump’s executive orders stand and didn’t reverse them.

Biden reversed 31% of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_executive_orders_by_Donald_Trump

I don’t know what your metric for, “just about all” is. I think you’ll have to get more specific than just the raw number. I have no real idea which ones are most significant or whether specific ones in those significant areas were left or undone.

To me, Biden did great on the climate, horrendous on enabling genocide in Gaza, and great on undoing the great fuckening of the working class that’s been a project since 1980. With both of those “greats” calibrated within the limits of what he could do within our pretty dystopian governmental system. Those are the biggest things I care about. If you want to talk specific actions, bring up the actions instead of just generalities about how many orders.

Biden handed out more oil drilling permits than Trump did!

There’s a popular way of talking about Biden’s impact on the climate that’s crafted by the right wing to depress support for the Democrats among the left, so that they can get people in who really want to destroy the climate, by making it sound like there’s no difference between the parties.

The IRA is the biggest climate action an American president has ever done, ten times over. It’s predicted by experts to roughly double the reduction in greenhouse gas emissions every year:

https://www.princeton.edu/news/2023/07/12/new-study-evaluates-climate-impact-ira

That’s not enough. It’s laughable. But how he got a bunch of American politicians including Joe Manchin to agree to that much, I have no idea.

It needs to be doubled again, this year or ideally 15 years ago, to make a difference. If someone comes out saying that we need to redouble the thing 5 times over to make a significant difference, and laugh in the face of this 4% shit, that sounds great to me. I would support that. If someone cherry-picks particular ways of looking at it, counting permits being one of those ways, that don’t really reflect what it did for emissions, and then argues that it’s not worth voting because Trump would be basically the same, I’m going to be suspicious of their motives.

I don’t know why I spent this much time laying out facts about how I look at it. I may not continue. But you said factual things, so I’m willing to have at least a short factual conversation about what happened.

Do you have any fucking ground to stand upon at all or are you just going to post more passive-aggressive shit?

Lol. I am king passive-aggressive. I don’t need anyone’s help at being liberal or smug. But someone from Hexbear complaining that they’re talking to someone who’s not being nice to them in their tone and presentation is fucking hilarious.

I’ll talk facts for at least a short time, if you want to, but let’s not get ourselves confused about who took a shit in this particular paddling-pool and made it all unpleasant to have a conversation in.

didn’t even abolish most of Trump’s prior policies and even expanded many of them

Do you really believe this is true? I can probably hit a list of 20 that he reversed or removed, if you want to switch away from pure bait and into something factual.

Tell me, what Trump policies did he expand? What are some of the many?

I’m not happy about it. I am trying to warn you that as many pig ballsacks as you post, you won’t be happy if Trump gets in and starts gunning for you for real, even if Kamala was also an American president and brought some killing to the table as they tend to do. It can still get worse, and I wish you wouldn’t help make it worse while smugly congratulating yourself on not being willing to engage with anyone who doesn’t want it to be worse.

I like how you all assume I don’t have queer or vulnerable people in my circle. I do. I might be vulnerable, too. You definitely might. The idea of laughing at someone who’s trying to protect themselves and the people around them, because they don’t have the same pig ballsacks queued up to send to anyone who tries to talk sense into them, is distasteful to me, also.

You might have a point that I shouldn’t come right away with smug hostility. But, honestly, I don’t know how else I could approach a conversation with this grouping.

Have fun with your chosen outcome. I hope it brings you good things. Good luck.

Ha! I had a feeling it wouldn’t be popular.

No, I’m not at all fine with concentration camps. I’ve started doing some small amount of advocacy recently that is resisting them to some small degree.

I don’t really know you, so I have no idea. For all I know you are doing a ton of other productive stuff, in which case great. But the one data point that I have at this stage is that you’re supporting voting for a stooge who the ruling classes are completely thrilled to have in the election, sitting there compliantly siphoning off 1% of the electorate to no purpose and serving as a stand-in for RCV, widespread protest, incrementalism, or anything else that might threaten their power that might otherwise get some investment of energy instead.

They hear that you really want to vote for a minority party in a FPTP election, and they laugh and laugh, chortling themselves to sleep secure in the knowledge that you’re content to spend time on counterproductive grandstanding that only helps them consolidate power that little bit much more. They can’t wait to get back to reality of colonial dominance tomorrow, as it is the reality of their lived experience, knowing that people who could be their opponents are spending time instead on fantasies.

I eagerly await your angry downvotes. Deep down, you know I’ve got a point.

Fifty four THOUSAND dollars?

Are you high?

This is one of the worst / best taxidermies I have ever seen.

Boops boops