This is a serious question, I want to understand your views. I know very little about the Chinese system, but from what I know it doesn’t seem to be very communist at all, but rather a capitalist state to rival the US. Why do you all defend it so viciously?
I think it’s pretty clear that China is nothing like US. I think it’s important to look where the labor and resources are allocated in the country. In a capitalist state like US, they’re primarily allocated towards producing surplus value for the capital owners, meanwhile production of socially useful things is entirely incidental.
On the other hand in China, we see huge amounts of resources devoted towards ending poverty. They are on track to eliminate abject poverty this year. They poured more concrete in three years than US has in the entire 20th century. They provide food, housing, healthcare, and education for the vast majority of the population.
China also hasn’t shown aggressive imperialist tendencies like US. Since the 1970s, China has not once gone to war while US has not spent a day at peace. Since 2001, the U.S. has spent over $6 trillion on military operations and war, money that might have been invested in the infrastructure of home.. So, while capitalism drives constant war and exploitation, socialism is improving the quality of life for the people of the nation.
Furthermore, CCP has 90 million members. This comes out to 15.5 citizens to every party member. Xi has also introduced reforms that make membership more strict in order to prevent careerism. So, every person in China either personally knows a party member or related to a party member. This translates to China having strong social programs, providing housing, education, and healthcare for their citizens that I mentioned above. People in China predominantly agree that the party is working in their interest.
China now surpassed US in number of fortune 500 companies, and 24 out of the 25 largest companies in China are state owned.The only private company on there is Huawei which is technically a cooperative. China also keeps their billionaires on a leash, and actually jails them which is unheard of in the West.
It’s also worth remembering that China is working towards communism. Nobody is saying that the current situation is the end state. Both Marx and Lenin say that you can’t just create a communist society out of the blue. It has to be a process to transform it gradually towards communism. This is the whole idea behind withering of the state. Lenin also correctly notes that it’s not possible for this to happen until communism is the dominant ideology in the world. The capitalist forces are always going to fight communism, and a state is needed to combat that.
China obviously has made mistakes, but that’s just how life works. It’s not possible to do something completely new and get everything right on the first try. However, what’s important is that China is clearly learning from their mistakes and improving as they go along. This is in line with the concept of implementing scientific communism.
“Socialism is when concrete is poured. Wow, I can’t believe you Dengists actually believe that. That’s clearly what you were saying and I’m totally not taking one part of a greater argument out of context to act like it is your only argument because my own personal understanding of socialism is completely idealistic and based on simplistic blanket terms rather than material analysis and understand of material conditions. Uhh…so I’m right and you’re wrong, and to emphasise that point, I’m going to call you a Dengist again.”
(Sorry if this bit is getting old, I’ll stop if people want me to.)
Because I have no faith in the western left and see them as my only hope of not getting killed by fascists.
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Ignore socialism for one moment
China developed from sub saharan African conditions only 40 years ago
They went from feudalism and a century of humiliation before the Chinese Communists came to power in 1949
Prior to 1949 the life expectancy was 35
20 years under Mao this had doubled to 70 years old
Since 1979 China has not been in a war and has gone from said sub saharan African conditions to a space faring civilisation landing on the far side of the moon and putting rovers on Mars
They did this without the hyper exploitation of colonies and wars of imperialism for conquests of booty
The Chinese people know what life was like a generation ago - their parenta tell them. The Communist Party of China enjoys a 89% approval rating of Chinese people precisely because they’ve lifted up the greatest number of humans out of poverty in such a short period of time
For that alone China should be praised daily by the world proletariat and the world socialist movement in the face of the most reactionary and murderous regime the world has ever seen (US and its puppets in Nato)
We can, of course, get onto comradely critiques of whether China is in socialism, whether they have succumbed to revisionism etc.
But we can only do that, as far as im concerned, when youve said your ten hail marys to China and thanked the CCP for it’s unbelievable sprint of humanity it has done for the human race since 1949
It’s AES (Actually Existing Socialism) like Vietnam and Laos. Therefore, I defend it.
Are you a communist?
Yes. I’ve been more interested in Russia and Cuba though, so I don’t know much in terms of Chinese communism, but I’m interested in the conflict between leftists who either hate or love China.
So far, I’ve been exposed more to the former than the latter, so I’ve been leaning more that way, but I obviously don’t want to commit to either view without seeing both sides’ arguments.
The whole problem arises from the misconception that “markets” or “market mechanisms” are anti-socialist or non-socialist or that they are intrinsically capitalist. Yet the replication of a market for socialism is just that: using the same mechanics to boost productivity. In addition: Vietnam and Laos have done the same thing. And China has neighborhood committees, unions, and cooperatives that work with the government. I would suggest watching Bay Area415’s video on the subject.
Was just gonna link this as a good introductory vid.
@QCry@lemmygrad.ml Socialism with Chinese Characteristics (SWCC), is quite a rabbit hole, and there’s a LOT of misconceptions and falsehoods about it, esp since China is the target of this new cold war.
Once you get some time, here’s a lot of readings / articles I’ve compiled.
