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Though socialist groups in the West tend to be secular, Christianity remains culturally hegemonic to such a degree that figures are appreciated in proportion to how well they fit a narrative template of martyrdom.
Imagine being so Eurocentric that you think all martyrdom narratives are necessarily Christian.
“Christianity revolves around a martyrdom narrative. Many Western socialists have martyrdom narratives. The West is historically Christian. Therefore, there is a direct influential link of Christianity on Western socialist martyr narratives.”
https://redsails.org/western-marxism-and-christianity/
Another factor that is very common in the western left is to treat suffering and extreme poverty as elements of superiority. It is very common in Western leftist culture to support martyrs and suffering. Everyone today likes Salvador Allende. Why? Salvador Allende is a victim, a martyr. He was assassinated in Pinochet’s coup d’ etat. When Hugo Chávez was alive, many sectors of the left turned their nose up at him. If he had been killed, for example, in the 2002 Coup attempt, he would be adored by the immense majority of the western left today, as a symbol of suffering and martyrdom. Since he continued exercising power as leader of a political process which, by necessity, had various contradictions, he was increasingly abandoned, as time passed
The Western Left absolutely has a losing fetish. It’s one of the things our enemies point out the most often!
That excerpt is spot-on. It’s even more noticeable when you talk to people who might be edging towards leftist ideas, but who aren’t leftists yet. Bring up that Allende was couped by the U.S. and you get immediate sympathy, but you’ll get “well that’s different” if you bring up Venezuela.
the western left absolutely has a losing fetish.
Oh wow a supossed ML failing to do historical material analysis… Maybe US leftists laude Allende because doing so points out the imperialist crimes the US has done. Meanwhile, openly supporting “official state enemies” like Chavez or Maduro will get you censored, persecuted, and harassed by the state and capital. Maybe those material conditions have more to do with why western leftists fail to support Maduro and Castro than some idealist nonesense about a christian martyrdom. Its as absurd as saying Castro and Chavez weren’t western and weren’t influenced by Christianity.
How about Vietnam? We fought an actual war against their state, they WON, and now you almost never hear a peep from the Western Left about Vietnam… Compare that to the Ls we celebrate all the time.
You’re getting the relationship the text is stating backwards.
Here’s their thinking:
The west was historically Christian and Christianity has a martyr narrative. Many people in the west, despite being secular, are still influenced by Christianity. Because of this, these people often associate a martyr narrative with being good.
atheism in america, is a false mind paradigm that actually sucks you into the SAME good/pure evil/corrupt puritanical mindset.
in reality, atheism should be “secular buddhism” imo. just talk to someone from eastern countries v western.
yall are still being mind controlled by christianity if you dont understand the dualistic nature of our world.
I heard this very useful parable: the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: “theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron”
If A, then B.
Observation: B. Therefore, A.
That’s what the logic of the text is saying.
It’s saying that Christianity has a prominent martyrdom narrative, Christianity is hegemonic in the west, so therefore western leftists view martyrdom positively. It’s not saying that all martyrdom narratives are Christian.
It’s like saying that English uses pronouns, English is hegemonic in the U.S., so therefore U.S. leftists use pronouns. That doesn’t imply the author thinks pronouns are an exclusive feature of the English language.
The ones who hate China for having billionaires but laud Vietnam despite having billionaires always give me pause.
The difference between a country that’s a competitor to the U.S. and a country that isn’t.
Some are genuinely misinformed or just don’t have coherent views.
Others are libs who want Healthcare masquerading as leftists.
GOOD post
U.S. leftists have a serious problem with dumping on anyone who achieves even modest levels of political notoriety or success. Someone with no audience and no pull is a pure, True Leftist. But as soon as they attract a following, or get in office, or have a chance at taking their ideas mainstream, they become a sellout, or a sheepdog, or otherwise too compromised to even critically support. Calling it a martyrdom template hits the nail on the head.
Faced with the intellectually challenging task of defending projects that didn’t always live up to our a priori ideals, with the task of understanding why they didn’t live up to those ideals, many opt for the doctrine of betrayal… Enthusiasm is proof of credulity, cynicism is proof of enlightenment — a hipster credo as much in politics as it is in art.
Posting about perfect leftist ideas is easy; going out there and trying to bend the real world towards those ideas is hard. And if you shit on people who are at least out there trying, well, you’re smarter and edgier than everyone else, because having any hope of even modestly improving things is for suckers.
We’ll never get anything done if we keep doing this. I’d rather have people who at least seem to be moving in the right direction than people who criticize while not moving anywhere.
Posting about perfect leftist ideas is easy; going out there and trying to bend the real world towards those ideas is hard. And if you shit on people who are at least out there trying, well, you’re smarter and edgier than everyone else, because having any hope of even modestly improving things is for suckers.
Yeah, and I think this is at least as important an influence as any Christian martyrdom complex.
It’s embarrassing to admit that Western leftism is essentially politically irrelevant in the West, so it’s much easier to say that AES don’t deserve support. Then, they don’t have to address the fact that there’s nothing western leftists can do to materially aid AES even if they wanted.
We legitimately have not had a single political party or individual that hasn’t had their main goal be adventurism or personal profit.
This strikes me as overly-pessimistic speculation. We can’t really know the personal goals of politicians (and those goals aren’t as relevant as what said politicians do, anyway), and there’s a bunch of evidence to the contrary (e.g., candidates not taking corporate donations).
I was thinking more of U.S. leftists who don’t support other U.S. leftists who start to gain mainstream influence or power. After all, that’s a place where U.S. leftists might reasonably have some impact. One thing this article doesn’t touch on, that should be part of any discussion about U.S. leftists and China, is that our opinions have zero effect on reality (whatever those opinions may be). If every single U.S. leftist was united in opposition to China or in support of China, it would make no difference to China.
With respect to “not trying,” I think a valid criticism of small-scale political activity (mutual aid networks, stopping sweeps of homeless camps) is that it’s hard to see how that will translate into the type of mainstream influence/power leftists need to address big problems like climate change, imperialism, or mass incarceration. I wouldn’t (and didn’t) say that type of small-scale activity is useless, but I do think it’s often over-praised because it’s “pure,” while mainstream efforts are often snubbed because they fail to live up to some idealistic standard. Ideally, leftists would do both – they’d organize those mutual aid networks, but also support larger, more mainstream efforts to take steps in the right direction. We should see these as complementary strategies.
No country is perfect but if you don’t live in China (or have done extensive research), you really can’t make any meaningful critique of their systems and constantly repeating all of the common talking points against China is going to help the western imperialists more than it is at improving the Chinese government.
