Propaganda is flying around like crazy in this conflict and I think it’s time for our community to come together and try to separate the truth from misinformation and chaff. Similar to my last post on the al-Ahli Hospital Massacre, we’re going to go with the following format:
For top-level comments, post the claim being made as well as who made the claim (please cite as close to the original source as possible) and, if possible, the date/time that claim was made.
For other comments, please try to either prove or debunk claims using multiple sources and verifiable information.
(bug for awareness)
just gonna sneak in here to say thank you @zephyreks@hexbear.net for this thread
@zephyreks@hexbear.net this is an amazing resource. Thank you so much for compiling this.
Translated by people online - translation may be unreliable
[2023/11/15] Haaretz has released a list of 1175 confirmed casualties
This list is continually updated. Per this list there are 1175 casualties (1087 from October 7th): 771 civilians, 59 police, 332 IDF, and 13 emergency services. Some number of these casualties are foreign, non-Israeli migrant workers.
Is there a pattern to how the civilians were killed? I scrolled a bit and many of them do not have a cause of death.
The numbers seem pretty solid around 750-800 Israeli civilian deaths. The question now seems to be which side fired the shots and whether they were avoidable. Some people on Hexbear have suggested it was poorly trained IDF shooting indiscriminately which caused many of the deaths, but so far that just seems to be speculation.
I don’t think there’s anything concrete as far as numbers go, but we do have an Israeli news source giving a few interesting tidbits (emphases mine):
As the pilots struggled to differentiate between terrorists and civilians, the decision was made to prioritize the immediate halt of the influx of Hamas terrorists and the potentially dangerous Gaza mobs breaching the border.
What would they be prioritizing this over? Presumably, making sure the person they’re targeting is a combatant before firing.
The initial pace of the strikes against the thousands of infiltrators was staggering, with the pilots eventually slowing down their attacks and meticulously selecting targets.
This implies a haphazard, “kill anything that moves” approach was employed at first.
Hamas terrorists deliberately played a cunning game with the helicopter pilots and special forces operatives. briefings revealed that the terrorists were advised to advance cautiously into the settlements and military outposts, to walk and not run, in order to appear like they were Israeli. This deception tactic persisted for some time until the Apache pilots realized that all constraints should be disregarded.
Constraints in this case would likely be silly little things like making sure your target isn’t a civilian before shooting.
Translated from an article by Yedioth Ahronoth that I cannot find because I do not speak Hebrew.
Translated by Middle East Observer
Yasmin Porat, a survivor from Kibbutz Be’eri, corroborates the claims from Tuval Escapa in an interview with Israeli media channel Haboker Hazeh. A transcript of her interview is available from Electronic Intifada.
[2023/10/17] Haaretz has released a list of Israeli’s killed on October 7th
This list separates losses into “civilians”, “emergency services”, “IDF”, and “police.”
By my count, there are 93 civilians, 5 emergency services workers, 171 IDF, and 41 police on this list.
Regarding the “by Hamas” part:
The document in question: https://www.moh.gov.ps/portal/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/تقرير-نهائي-باسماء-الشهداء-1.pdf
Edit: Added State Department report
[2023/11/11] A video first posted on X by “Open Source Intel” has been circulating that shows a supposed nurse from al-Shifa condemning Hamas and claiming that Hamas is stealing the hospital’s food, fuel, and medicine. It has since been deleted.
[2023/11/12] Video of woman claiming Hamas stole medicines from Gaza hospital ‘clearly staged’: Digital media expert
[2023/11/15] Video of ‘nurse’ denouncing Hamas occupation of Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza is fake
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
